The Light of the World

Season 2 Episode 4 Transcript

People put sand on, like, a drum and set it to tonal frequencies, and the sand will literally disperse into perfect geometric patterns depending on which frequency you hit. Yeah. It's literally creation through sound, which is just beautiful. Right? Welcome to the Restless Theologian podcast, where we focus on having insightful conversations in biblical history and theology.

I'm your host, Zechariah Eshack. For our 4th episode of season 2, we will be taking a look at how Christ is the light of the world. And today, I have with me my good friend, Zach, to just kind of unpack this. How are you doing, Zach? I'm doing great.

Zach and Zech back in my house again. That's right. That's right. How's the family doing? We're doing great.

Thanks for asking. How's yours? I heard you, had some exciting news recently. Yep. Yep.

I proposed, last Thursday. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. So that's, exciting.

We've been together for a long time, and, you know, feel like it's long overdue. Yeah. That's great, though. It's a fresh start, and Yeah. I really enjoy Katie and listening to her on the show.

And you guys are just great, and I'm very excited for both of you. Yeah. I appreciate that. That's actually kind of little bit of the motivation behind, like, why I kinda started the show is because I enjoyed having those conversations with her. And me and her come from different Christian traditions.

Mhmm. So I feel like we kinda balance each other out. Yeah. That's great. Healthy debate.

Yeah. Healthy debate. Exactly. Yep. So I thought I would open with, you know, one of my favorite theologians, BB Warfield.

He's got a really great, quote and it's about the old testament. Mhmm. And I feel like it's kind of applies to what we're talking about today. Okay. BB Warfield says, the old testament may be likened to a chamber, richly furnished, but dimly lidded.

The introduction of light brings into it nothing new, which was not in it before. But it brings out into clearer view much of what it what was in it, but was only dimly or even not at all perceived before. And I I love that quote because, it does show you that when Jesus comes and, you know, he makes statements that I've not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill. Mhmm. And there is a lot of questions, from the old testament, you know, and there's a lot of shadows too of what's to come.

You know, Christ fulfills these roles of prophet, priest, king. And, the I think the irony is is he is revelation and, gives revelation too, if that makes sense. Yeah. Because it's like, it's he is the fulfillment of what the old testament so frequently prophesies about. Right.

Yeah. It's like, Matthew 13. Right? So he's talking about blessed are the eyes who can because they see and your ears because they hear. But it's also because the all the prophets before them, they didn't have the ability to do all that, and it's because of that.

And so the light. I think that's a interesting way to allude back to the old tradition. And, really, I think the thing that I discovered the most while studying for this episode was the bridge. Right? The light is the bridge between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

I I definitely, I see where you're going. I think that when Jesus I think when he comes, you know, this was something I actually picked up on recently. I was watching, there's this really good, YouTube channel, and it could get a little dry just because it's very informational and historic. It's actually done, I think, by the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. But anyway, with Ancient Paths, TV, I believe is the guy's handle.

He brought up a John Calvin quote about how the topic was covering, Baptist Mhmm. And they're dispensational. And I think that they kind of see a separation between the Israelites of the Old Testament and that the Christian people of today, almost like they sever them too much where Calvin actually saw it as like a continuation of the church. Yes. And I think that that's kind of interesting way of looking at it.

Because, you know, going back to what Christ said, you know, I have not come to abolish, but to fulfill. Right. So Yeah. And I think we'll discover a lot of that working through this today. Yeah.

Agreed. So, first, I wanna cover some of the key verses that just goes through and talks about Jesus Christ being the true light. Mhmm. So I'll I'll hit these and, you know, feel free to chime in Sure. At any time.

Genesis 1 3 through 4. And God said, let there be light, and there was light. And God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. And that passage, draws to mind John 1. And I know we've kind of discussed this in person, but they both kinda start out the same way.

In the beginning, you know, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth in Genesis. So it's the very first command that God gives. And then in the gospel of John, it says in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Mhmm. So it is you kinda see a little bit of a comparison and, you know, comparison there where in the beginning, it's I think it's more referencing physical light.

Yeah. And God called it good. And then in the gospel of John, it's more about the spiritual light. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Yeah. I was reading, John 1. So the 4th verse. Right? The word gave life to everything, and his life brought light to everyone.

So the word is life, and life is light. So I guess you could almost think of the word as light, and there's an interesting connection in in there. And so, you know, if you think of the physicality of creation, right, the word, that's, you know, if you produce sound waves and you're building something, I don't know if you've ever looked into cymatics at all. No. So cymatics is really interesting.

There's a bunch of experiments. I highly recommend people go on YouTube. Just look look it up. People put sand on, like, a drum and set it to tonal frequencies, and the sand will literally disperse into perfect geometric patterns depending on which frequency you hit. Yeah.

It's literally creation through sound, which is just beautiful. Right? And I think I've come across some of this a little bit before, and I I don't know if it was done with maybe liquid. Mhmm. But it just had to do with sound, and it's crazy the patterns it makes.

Yeah. They do the same thing with liquids too, which is super interesting. So it's all just waves. Right? So it's creation through the voice, which is waves.

Light is waves. And being able to, see the physicality produced by it is not always apparent to us. But Yeah. You know, that's why it's important to say good things and live in a positive light. You don't want to be, you know, low vibration, right, so have the lower sound waves so you're not resonating at the same level as somebody.

So it's literally the physical embodiment of becoming enlightened. Right? The higher your frequency is, the higher your vibration is, the more positive you're you tend to be, you know, seen as. So I just think that's all very interesting, that connection there. Yeah.

I think there's almost a connection between, you know, for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. Mhmm. And it kinda makes sense how, you know, even responding in anger to someone being angry with you. Yeah. And it does make make you wonder, like, going off of what you said Mhmm.

If there's maybe a little bit of a connection there because it's tone. For sure. It's killing my vibe. Right? And it's just the vibe is just the frequency that you're resonating at.

So it's just bringing people down or bringing people up like like Jesus. So Yep. It's cool. Yeah. That's really cool.

There's something I wanted to touch on on that. Oh, I think it's because, in the beginning, in Genesis 1, the first thing that we kind of see and can examine about God is that God speaks. Mhmm. And kind of going off of what you said about, you know, sound being so important. Mhmm.

I think when you look at the Old Testament, a lot of times when it does seem that the prophets would mock the pagan gods and goddesses Mhmm. What I mean, I think what he says a lot of time what they say a lot of times is that they're deaf and dumb Mhmm. And that they don't speak. Mhmm. And that's the difference between their gods and their false gods and the one true god.

It's because the true god speaks. Right. And even those people that think that god doesn't speak today, But it's like, but he has spoken because he's given a special revelation. Mhmm. So it is God's word within scripture.

I did actually have a conversation with a a guy who I used to work with who was atheist. And he had asked me, we were kinda talking about this subject, and I thought it was kinda funny how, you know, he would had questions about the canon. And I said, if there is a a scripture out there or there's a letter out there that's God's word, I said, it is not the church that necessarily it's not by their ruling that makes it God's word. Mhmm. It's inherent in what it is.

Right. So I said, whether or not I'm aware of it has no bearing on what the substance of that is. You know what I mean? That makes sense. Oh, yeah.

So But your your understanding is different of it. Yeah. Right. Mhmm. Yep.

So I I'll touch on a couple other passages real quick, from the old testament and then we'll jump into the new. This is Exodus 13/21. And the Lord went, before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light. And they might travel by day and by night. That they might travel by day and by night.

Mhmm. So I think when Israel was wandering around in the desert, the wilderness, like, God would lead them at night, you know, in a pillar of or a cloud of fire. Mhmm. And I think that that's really cool because he's guiding them by his light even then. Right.

There's also a prophecy in Isaiah 92 that speaks of Christ and his coming. The people who walked in darkness, this is Isaiah 92. The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light. Those who dwell in a land of deep darkness, on them has a light shown. And I think that that is prophesying about Christ coming in the ministry that he's gonna have.

It's really interesting you found something in Isaiah, because I found something too in 60. So at the beginning and the end of 60, it talks about the light too, which I thought was very interesting. So it starts in 61. Arise, Jerusalem. Let your light shine for all to see, for the glory of the Lord rises to shine on you.

So it starts there. Right? So looking pointing towards Jerusalem. But then at the end, very at the very end of 20, your sun will never set again, and your moon will wane no more. The Lord will be your overlap your everlasting light, your days of sorrow will end.

So it starts with the the old promise, and then it ends with the new. And I think that's just really beautiful too. That is. Mhmm. There's, I think, special significance just about light and then also vision in scripture.

And I wanted to touch on a couple of these in the New Testament. So we know that when Christ was on earth that there's 3 when I looked it up, there's 3 specific events where he heals blind men. Yeah. And I'll just run through these real quick because I just wanna get to the spiritual aspect of it. But physically, Jesus cured blind men in 3 different locations.

Jericho, Bethsaida, and Siloam. And I it's really cool that it's 3 because 3 is a very significant number Mhmm. In the scriptures. So but there's also a spiritual vision going on here. And I wanted to run through these with you and and get your take on it.

So this is a Matthew 13:11 through 13. And he, Jesus, answered them, to you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear nor do they understand. Mhmm.

I think that that is very significant to note just because other people listen to Christ. And that Christ is specifically talking to his disciples. Mhmm. And he's telling them that the Pharisees that, the understanding that they have and the enlightenment that they have or illumination, I I should say Mhmm. That the disciples have it, but the Pharisees do not.

Right. And that is something that is given to them, and I think by God the father. So I think that that is how Jesus is the light because he opens up in a real way, he opens up these things so you can understand them and believe them. Mhmm. I think it's going going through, like, a being a born again experience is, you really start to understand it.

Right? Like, I've I've wandered in in my moments and and come back. And, once you have that true understanding, things start to unfold for you. And, you know, that's I think the word illumination is great. Right?

That's literally light. You know? It's Yeah. The other one I like is enlightenment. Right?

So you become illuminated, enlightened. It's light both times. It's it's that understanding, that shining of the true knowledge that once you acquire it, it's something that you you can't explain it once you've experienced it. You know? Yeah.

And that is something I've always wondered is and Augustine does bring this up, pretty frequently in some of his writings about how, you know, what separates one man from another when it comes to this. Mhmm. It's not their intellect. Mhmm. You know what I mean?

There's there's smarter people that, you know, the Pharisees, they were smart. They would they knew they knew the scriptures. But that doesn't necessarily mean they truly under understood their meaning. Right. And, there's 2 more I wanna hit.

So this is in Luke 2445. Then he, Christ, open their minds to understand the scriptures. So that illumination that we're that we're talking about, even the understanding of the scriptures, I think it's it's important to know that it is like a gift to be able to understand these things. Because and I think too over time, sometimes it's hard to tell where if you're studying something and one day it just clicks. Mhmm.

And sometimes you're like, okay. Is that because the Holy Spirit allowed me to see something that I had not previously seen? Mhmm. It's, so way back in the day, do you know anything about Hermeticism? No.

Okay. So it's ancient book. Right? And so one of the principles there that they talk about is as above, so below. So it's I have heard that.

Have you heard that before? Yeah. Okay. So that comes from Hermeticism. So that's, you know, the spiritual realm being reflected physically on earth.

Right? And so this was still a pervasive thinking during Jesus' time, and I think it's one of the reasons why he spoke in parables. And if you dissect his words with that in mind, you start to see the spiritual side of some of the more physical things that he's doing. And, as you evolve in your thinking and you start to connect dots in new and unique ways, the stories start to unfold new lessons for you too, depending on where you're at in your life and the things that you've experienced. And Yeah.

You start to make interesting connections. Right? Right. I think one of the one of the ones I was looking at in particular had to do with the sun. And so if you're reading Jesus talking to Nathaniel, he's he basically says that I'll just read it.

So this is John 151. He said, then he said, I tell you the truth. You will all see heaven open and the angels of God going up and down on the Son of Man, the one who is the stairway between heaven and earth. So think about that. But now think about sun, s u n, instead of s o n, from that perspective.

It's the light connecting the sky to the earth again. So it's you do just a little bit of a shift, and then you can have a whole another connection with the passage and think about it in a whole another way. And I think that's the parable in the way that the light has opened up a new whole new meaning is if you just, you know, start to sit in that light a little bit and think about things and take take your time to make the connections. Yeah. Whole whole things will will start to unveil themselves that you wouldn't have thought of before.

And I just I love that about the Bible. I do. Like, yeah, same, contemplating and kinda meditating on passages, I think, allow it to open up for you. Like, you know, me and Katie have talked about this quite a bit, you know, even in in she and I know that she feels the same way where it's like, you know, sometimes it just clicks for you. You're not sure why.

It's like you've heard some of these passages so many times Mhmm. And you can't explain it. Yeah. And I feel like I know it's the same way with her too because she'll tell me that, which I think is great because I think that if you ask for the Holy Spirit to open up some of these things to you Mhmm. I believe that that's a real possibility.

But going back to what you had said about the the latter Mhmm. And, I mean, that does sound like I think I have heard a connection between Jacob's ladder. Yeah. Exactly. Okay.

So did you do any reading on that when you were studying it? Or did that Not recently, but that's a connection I had thought about before. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like foreshadowing.

Exactly. It's the Old Testament talking to the New Testament again. Yeah. Mhmm. Well, I think you could see it too.

Like you said, it could is that bridge, that gap because it's like, well, if Christ is the mediator between God and man Mhmm. In a real way, it's like he is that ladder Exactly. To, whereas before we were cut off from, communion with God. And then when Christ comes, I think he restores that communion to believers. Mhmm.

There was, in Matthew so this is in Matthew 16, verses 15 through 17. He, Jesus, said to them, but who do you say that I am? Simon Peter replied, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus answered him, blessed are you, Simon Barjona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father who is in heaven. And I do love that because it does show that enlightenment and that special revelation that I think that was given, to Peter about the true nature and about the true character and being about who Christ is.

Mhmm. There's a passage about, a woman named Lydia. How when Paul was preaching, like, the gospel, when he was going around preaching the gospel that Lydia, it says that God opened her heart so that she could, like, basically hear and understand and believe in what Paul was saying. Mhmm. And so when you think about it, I think that, like, faith both because the bible does talk about faith being a gift from God.

Mhmm. So it's like I I think the same thing when it comes to repentance, faith and repentance. So I think that those 2 are important. I do and I do think that both are equally gifts of God. So I'm guessing the the faith, the belief would come first and then the repentance.

But, like, they go hand in hand. It's just like just like, faith and works. Mhmm. Because it's it's like, well, a person doesn't have works, and then they're given faith. They have faith which produces and results in good works.

Right. So you see that they're closely connected, and it's almost like you can't like, you're not like, you can distinguish them, but they're not you can't necessarily completely separate them because they should go hand in hand. It's the, spiritual unfoldment. Right? It's the the light entering within instead of without.

So it's the opening of that possibility and then being able to produce the works from the outside once you have the light from within. And I think that's a way to let it shine outwards. You know? Yeah. And going to, when Jesus when I think when he confront his confronts the Pharisees and he's given the 7 woes in scripture Mhmm.

One of the things he notes is that, just about how something can be very ugly on the inside, but outward appearances look beautiful. Mhmm. You know, I mean, he he mentions that about the tombs. You know, he's like, they're whitewashed tombs. They may be beautiful on the outside, but inside, they're full of dead men's bones.

Mhmm. And so the same thing with, like, his cup, metaphor when he talks about first cleaning the inside of the cup and dish, that way the outside may be clean also. So it's almost like you receive that inner light from the Holy Spirit. And it's like we reflect that light, to others. You know what I mean?

So it's like first inward, but then an outward thing. Yeah. You, when you look at somebody, you can tell they have that glow. Right? It's you can't contain it once once you have that inside of you.

They just you can look and see the energy, the the light, the hope inside of somebody, once that enters into them, which is really cool. That is really cool. So I know that this gets brought up a lot, but I guess the question would be about fairness. Because the episode I had with Corey, and this is a topic that gets brought up over and over again. I feel like, why would God give enlightenment to the disciples, but not to the Pharisees?

And the in the same way, what Saul walking on the road to Damascus and what what what happens to him, he sees that blinding light. Mhmm. And and he's literally blind, and he can't see anything. And and then his eyes are spiritually opened Right. Which is kinda crazy because it's like he was blinded physically Mhmm.

And then it allowed him to see spiritually. I think when you talk about the blindness, right, you've mentioned 3 different occasions in the Bible where it talked about that. So when he was in Jericho, right, I have that passage here from from Mark. It said, he called out Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me. He used the word.

He asked him for healing. Right? Yeah. So you have to you have to ask. And then the next one, in Siloam, he was brought there by his friends.

You know? And then he initially took the hand of Jesus and said, can you see anything now? He couldn't see perfectly yet. Right? So he still had he was gaining the faith and gaining the trust, and then he put his faith in Jesus.

And that's when he got he, got healed. So he had the he had somebody lead him there, but he still had to make that decision on his own. And then the the last time also, you spit this time too. So but this time, he mixed it with dirt. Right?

So he had he physically made it dark, right, and and wiped it away. So he physically wiped the the darkness away. So I just think you can you can talk about fairness, but you have to ask, and you have to be willing to receive too. Yeah. Well, I think, and this is obviously, I'm gonna be biased in my answer or my response.

And, I I don't think you've heard this episode yet because I haven't released it yet. But the episode I most recently did with Corey, we kinda talked about this a little bit. Uh-huh. But, I mentioned one of my favorite, like, Augustine, quotes about how, why do we pray for others that don't believe that they should believe? Unless we believe with perfect propriety that God is able to change people's hearts and minds who are perverse and opposed to the faith.

Mhmm. And I think that that is really kinda fascinating how God can use, like, even the prayers of the saints Mhmm. To bring people into the fold. Mhmm. Because if it if faith itself is a gift, it's something that, you know, people receive.

But I think that, I think the question that you're kind of getting at a little bit more is the question of resistibility Mhmm. Is whether or not grace is resistible. Okay. And, have you ever thought about this? Like No.

This is new for me. This is new for you? Okay. So B. B.

Warfield, for example, I kind of love his little book, The Plan of Salvation, because he talks about how if man is truly spiritually dead, he says he he makes a comment about how if a man is truly spiritually dead, like, how is he able to to resist and successfully resist almighty grace? He says resistance is itself is an activity, and it's a pretty considerable activity for a dead man. Right. And, but I do I do think that that's it's a really like, for people that think a little bit more of, like, about grace being resistible Mhmm. I definitely can understand, some of the passages that they use.

I mean, obviously, Eileen a certain way, because I don't think it's resistible. Because one of the thing one of the arguments I think you'll see, especially online, is more that Calvinism, for example, like, oh, reform reform theology, like, your God is evil. Like, why would he force someone against their will? And that and that's usually what you get. I've seen that argument a lot.

That comment a lot. And for me, that tells me that they actually don't understand what reform theology teaches. Because what it actually teaches is that it's a different thing to force someone against their will as it is to make them willing. Mhmm. So if God has a power over the will, then the action comes next.

So, like, this is another, scripture passage that Augustine does quote a lot. He says, it is God that works. I think it's from maybe Philippians, but he says, it's God that works in you both to will and to do for his good pleasure. And I think that that's really cool because you have 2 different actions going on. You have, you have you have one aspect of the will, which is probably would be desire.

Mhmm. And then you have the the doing, which is like the action. Mhmm. Not sure if that's the best way to express it, but it is kind of cool to think about because, well, if you will something to happen, like, if your desires are changed, then it's like your actions are gonna change. Right.

So I think that that's a really cool way of looking at it. And I think it's funny. I actually with my brother, my oldest brother, me and him, we, he he leans more Armenian. Mhmm. So we we have these type of conversations a lot.

It's really it it's really engaging. It's really fun to kinda have have them with them, you know, but, because it does. It makes you think. Oh, yeah. For sure.

So Those are the kinds of things that'll make you think about something else new too. So that's how that's how it works. Yeah. Yeah. And you kind of, I think, see God in a way that is, like, it's very gracious too because if you do see it as a, like, truly as a gift Mhmm.

Like, faith. And then I think I think faith itself, going back to what you were saying from the beginning, of the conversation about God speaking and the importance of words. Mhmm. And I think that that is why it's so important that, like, it's Paul that says, you know, faith comes from hearing and hearing of the word of God. So it's like you have that outward proclamation, that speech, that we engage in with other people.

Mhmm. So it's like our our voice, and it's like I think it's cool that God uses people as instruments. Right? In order to bring people to himself in various ways. Do you have any Well, an instrument makes sounds.

Yeah. I think great. That's a great correlation. Yeah. Yeah.

And so it's, you know, it's it's taking that action and, you know, being being a creator by using your voice, and that's, has the opportunity to instill the light within somebody. So it's, once again, translating something more physical into something a little bit more intangible, a little bit more spiritual. And it's a interesting way to, transfer the knowledge and Yeah. Hope. You know what I think would be really cool?

What is that stuff called again? Where it's it's, when you see the Cymatics. Cymatics with with a c? Yes. Okay.

Cymatics. Yeah. I'll have to look it up. I think would be really cool. Mhmm.

And who knows? Someone might have already done this. Yeah. But it would be really cool to, like, I don't know, even Genesis with the creation story Mhmm. To put that to something like that because it would be really beautiful to see.

And I would love to see what it would what that what that would translate to from a visual's perspective. Average the tonal ranges out and do a visual. That'd be a great art art exhibit, Zach. You should get on that. Yeah.

Right. The thing that you'll notice within those patterns that you start to look at some really old stained glass and, you know, some old churches, you see those portals above the above the door a lot of times where it's a big circular stained glass circle. And Yeah. You see the different patterns within the different within the glass. And then you look at the patterns made by Cymatics, and there's such a correlation there too where it's just you know, it's the light is entering in the church through that portal and then illuminating the interior of the space.

So it's translating the the physical into light within as well, which is super cool too. That is really cool. Mhmm. Yeah. It's it's kind of crazy how images are perceived throughout the church just in general.

And, you know, I've always gone back and forth on this about, like, more of the reform camp most likely on the side of not having any depictions of Jesus Mhmm. In in, any sort of artwork, any sort of statues, none of that. They're very strict on that on that, like, the that commandment. Mhmm. And I do understand, definitely, because I I think that sometimes when we take the visual and we focus too much on the visual Mhmm.

That we can start to idolize those things. Mhmm. Yeah. And which I don't think, you know, that's not healthy and it's idolatry. Mhmm.

So it's it's kind of some sometimes I think too, it's not necessarily what it is, but how it's treated, if that makes sense. Because, you know, like I said, I I've always gone back and forth on this because, like, I may see a a cool statue, like, if I ever wanted to travel, like, you know, I even when I traveled to New York or Boston, like, there are statues, you know, Teddy Roosevelt on a horse in front of the Museum of Natural History. Like, it's really cool, like, when you look at it. But a part of you, like, you don't think any thing of it. Like, you don't think anyone's trying to give it adoration or worship.

Mhmm. But then you also have with the orthodox, you have, there's such an emphasis on icons. Mhmm. So there's that visual. And I I think that the way they see it, it's almost like they're not they would say that they're not adoring the picture, but the person through the picture.

Mhmm. Almost like it's like some sort of, gateway to that person for for adoration Mhmm. Which I personally find very concerning. Right. Because I I think it can be a slippery slope between adoration and worship.

Yeah. I guess it just depends on what one's definition of those terms would be. But I don't wanna go too far off. But does that make sense? So it's kinda crazy how there's a there's a importance between the visual and auditory.

Yeah. I think the, you know, the the visual. Right? The the visual is there because of the light. So you have the auditory, which is the the the sound.

Yeah. And if you think about the light, the light is there to help bring bring out some of those other aspects. You you can look at a picture a 1000 times and then see it in a wholly totally different way once you start to understand, you know, some symbolism and things like that. Yeah. You were talking earlier about how the light entered into her through her heart.

Right? So if you think about other religions, other belief systems, first of all, think about the cross and then think about the human body. So if you stretch your arms out, right in the center of where the cross meets is is your heart. Right? If if the if the cross it was a symbol of your body, so if you were to overlay it.

Yeah. So if you look at, the chakras, right, so there are 7 chakras. The one that's right over your heart is the the green chakra. It's your heart chakra. It's where the it's like your love center, essentially.

So if you think about the same way in connecting that, once you understand that, oh, okay. Well, this is where the love can enter, and then you read stories in the bible to connect it that way. Now when I think about, you know, when I see a cross and I look at the center of it, it's I see the the love, the heart there. Yeah. And connecting that to, you know, Catholic beliefs.

They have different colors during different periods of time. And I always thought that it was really interesting that the green the green vestments were worn during the ordinary time. Right? Yeah. And during the ordinary time, that's our opportunity to really take in the light.

So I just think that that's a really interesting connection there too. Yeah. So when it comes to the chakras thing, I have I had no next to nothing Mhmm. About it. Like, it it's more of, like, is it more of, like, an eastern mysticism type thing?

Is it more of, like, a pagan origin? Like, I mean, can you speak to it? Because I don't know what that is. To it a little bit. I don't I'm not as familiar with the history, but I'm more familiar with the color theory because I'm an artist.

So, you know, the the top chakra, right, that's your that's where the Christ consciousness exists, right, is the purple. So it's the color of royalty. So I always thought that was really interesting too if you start looking at the Catholic church and some other colors that have been implemented. I think that the church is pulled from from previous, previous thoughts and previous, you know, religions and belief systems and and use those as a way to explain Christ light. So it's a way to connect the old with the new.

And I think that some of those old traditions got integrated into Christianity because of that. Yeah. I think that there has been some, like, over time, pagan influences on like, I don't wanna accuse Christianity as a whole of, like, any sort of paganism. But I do think that there's elements that I think have over time in certain denominations Mhmm. Maybe have some elements of paganism in them.

And and the reason why I say that is because I know when, like, the Spanish, for example, like, when they I think, were conquering more of, like, South America and stuff like that. It does sound like, when churches were established, sometimes the priests, you know, like Roman Catholic churches, for example. Like, I I think sometimes the priest would, you know, want to convert them, of course, and they did convert people, which is why, you know, predominantly South American countries are gonna be more Roman Catholic than they would be Protestant. And I think that, you know, there's quite a few reasons why that is. It's like if you think about in America, I think I don't know the statistics or the numbers, but, like, the SBC is the largest, like, Protestant denomination.

I I believe in America. Mhmm. And so I do think that Protestantism probably outnumbers Roman Catholicism in America. But going back to South America, I think that there would be times that probably since they were a little bit outnumbered when they would go to try to establish churches. Mhmm.

And sometimes it would be a little bit in give and take where they're probably like, well, I don't wanna be too overbearing and maybe, like, maybe I'll let this tradition slide and, you know Yeah. And, I remember watching this video. And this guy was kind of crazy. He was from, he was a reporter on CNN. And you might know him because he was that guy that actually went over to a tribe where they were cannibals.

And he actually ate with them. Yeah. So he actually ate, like, I think, human flesh. I mean, I definitely could see that there's probably still some small tribes out there that maybe still engage in that those practices. But, basically, what I was getting at was, so that reporter from CNN, he actually, I think he did a video on, and I'm not like a big fan of CNN by any stretch.

But he, when he went to South America, he actually was showing, pictures of this, like, I think it was, like, maybe a pagan goddess. And it was, she was shaped like the famous depiction of of Mary with Jesus. Mhmm. So there's, like, there's paintings that look like at first glance, you're like, oh, you're like that. Those are paintings of Mary.

Mhmm. But they're actually not. They were like a pagan goddess. Mhmm. And so it does make you think it's like there's probably some little overlap there.

Mhmm. And I think it is kind of dependent upon the culture that, like, where the church establishes Mhmm. And how much influence they have on that culture and and control that they have to influence those type of things. Yeah. And I think I think it's an argument that a lot of atheists see is right.

The, like, oh, the the Christ story is told the same across different religions. It's it's just horror story told. Yeah. You know, different things like that. Watched Zeitgeist and then all of a sudden they know everything.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever seen that? Of course.

Yeah. Yeah. Super interesting. But When I looked into it though, I was I was probably maybe 24. I started looking into it because I think a friend of mine was trying to challenge me on a lot of my Christian beliefs.

And then when I started looking into some of the stories, like like, some of them are quite a stretch. Mhmm. Like, I mean, even December 25th, it's like, well, just because that's a date the Christians, decided on that that we would celebrate Yeah. Christ's birth is actually not the date. We don't know the date.

Mhmm. I think that it's supposedly possibly in spring Mhmm. Is what scholars, I think, maintain. Mhmm. But once you start to kind of pick it apart, you're like, they're trying to make these connections and trying to discredit the incarnation story as much as they can.

Mhmm. So, but yeah. Do you have any thoughts on it? Well, yeah. It's it goes it's going back to the light again.

Right? So it's the same story, but now that's it's presented in literally a new light. Right? So Yeah. You can look at it from the Jesus perspective, see the history there, but understand it from a from a new place and understand that, you know, the the stories, the traditions, even the dates sometimes have existed even before him.

But now that he's been here, lived it and shown us the true meaning of it, all that stuff in the past didn't have the same impact that it does now now that now that he's been revealed. Yeah. I think with when it comes to talking about the dates Mhmm. Because, you know, they might, someone might say it's like, oh, I think it might have been Mythros was a pagan god or goddess. And they say born on December 25th and all that.

Yeah. And once you start looking into some of these dates though, like, about why Christians pick these dates Mhmm. They would sometimes intentionally, at least from my understanding, pick dates that were actually, pagan days on purpose. For sure. And it it kinda makes me think back to it's almost a sign of dominance.

Mhmm. Because when, when the Christians would come and destroy a mosque or vice versa, a lot of times they would change, like, say, say, the Muslims came in and they destroy like, basically, would take a temple and turn it into a mosque. Mhmm. And I've actually seen stuff on this where you start peeling away, like, some of the geometric, like, artwork Mhmm. And you actually see, like, frescoes and stuff underneath it.

And it's kinda crazy when you think about it because it was their way of showing, like well, obviously, they wanted to respect their religion and spread it. Mhmm. But also too, I think it's a way of kind of showing dominance of one religion over another. Could be. Yeah.

Mhmm. Definitely a real possibility. Definitely. Yeah. But, yeah.

So I mean, it's been great talking with you. I mean, there's a lot, I think we covered a lot of ground. Mhmm. Just about Christ being the true light and, just about how he can, through the holy spirit, open up people's hearts, give them faith, repentance, give them understanding of the scriptures. And I think that, there's one passage I kinda wanna end on.

And this is in Matthew 5 14 verses 16. It says, Christ says, you are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden, nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand. And it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and give glory to to your father who is in heaven.

And so I think that that's a great reminder to us as Christians to be a reflection of the true light. Mhmm. And, you know, kind of let the true light absorb into us and reflect that to others. I know it's not easy. I struggle with it.

You know? I struggle with it on the way here coming from traffic. Yeah. I understand that. Yeah.

So, but yeah. Thanks, Zach. I really appreciate you joining me today. It's been great. I love having you on and definitely look forward to having you on again.

Yeah. I'll, I'd say this episode was, it was lit. Thanks for having me, Zech. Yeah. Thank you.

And, thanks to our listeners for tuning in. And, I also wanted to bring up that our next topic will be about the true vine. We will be discussing the unity that comes from being in Christ.